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arXiv:2508.10975cs.LG

BeyondWeb: Lessons from Scaling Synthetic Data for Trillion-scale Pretraining

DatologyAI, :, Pratyush Maini, Vineeth Dorna, Parth Doshi, Aldo Carranza, Fan Pan, Jack Urbanek, Paul Burstein, Alex Fang, Alvin Deng, Amro Abbas, Brett Larsen, Cody Blakeney, Charvi Bannur, Christina Baek, Darren Teh, David Schwab, Haakon Mongstad, Haoli Yin, Josh Wills, Kaleigh Mentzer, Luke Merrick, Ricardo Monti, Rishabh Adiga, Siddharth Joshi, Spandan Das, Zhengping Wang, Bogdan Gaza, Ari Morcos, Matthew Leavitt

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Abstract

Recent advances in large language model (LLM) pretraining have shown that simply scaling data quantity eventually leads to diminishing returns, hitting a data wall. In response, the use of synthetic data for pretraining has emerged as a promising paradigm for pushing the frontier of performance. Despite this, the factors affecting synthetic data quality remain poorly understood. In this work, we introduce BeyondWeb, a synthetic data generation framework that produces high-quality synthetic data for pretraining. BeyondWeb significantly extends the capabilities of traditional web-scale datasets, outperforming state-of-the-art synthetic pretraining datasets such as Cosmopedia and Nemotron-CC's high-quality synthetic subset (Nemotron-Synth) by up to 5.1 percentage points (pp) and 2.6pp, respectively, when averaged across a suite of 14 benchmark evaluations. It delivers up to 7.7x faster training than open web data and 2.7x faster than Nemotron-Synth. Remarkably, a 3B model trained for 180B tokens on BeyondWeb outperforms an 8B model trained for the same token budget on Cosmopedia. We also present several insights from BeyondWeb on synthetic data for pretraining: what drives its benefits, which data to rephrase and how, and the impact of model size and family on data quality. Overall, our work shows that there's no silver bullet for generating high-quality synthetic pretraining data. The best outcomes require jointly optimizing many factors, a challenging task that requires rigorous science and practical expertise. Naive approaches can yield modest improvements, potentially at great cost, while well-executed methods can yield transformative improvements, as exemplified by BeyondWeb.

arXiv comments
Blog version can be viewed at: http://blog.datologyai.com/beyondweb
Journal reference
DOI
Subjects
cs.LGMachine Learning cs.CLComputation and Language

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Linked by 1 identifiable commenter in 1 comment across 1 thread, from Oct 2026 to Oct 2026. Found in 1 HN submission from Aug 2025 to Aug 2025. Open submission discussions.

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    • LLMs can be pre-trained on LLM outputs, and there have been a few recent interesting implementations of this. - https://arxiv.org/abs/2609.37891 - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2508.10975 - https://www.datologyai.com/blog/eating-the-rainbow-a-primer-... As well as recent model releases…

      mmargenotView on HNParent context

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