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arXiv:1407.7295gr-qc

Physical observability of horizons

Matt Visser

Early discovery. Linked by one identifiable commenter. This paper is outside the main ranking; a mention is not an endorsement.

Abstract

Event horizons are (generically) not physically observable. In contrast, apparent horizons (and the closely related trapping horizons) are generically physically observable --- in the sense that they can be detected by observers working in finite-size regions of spacetime. Consequently event horizons are inappropriate tools for defining astrophysical black holes, or indeed for defining any notion of evolving}black hole, (evolving either due to accretion or Hawking radiation). The only situation in which an event horizon becomes physically observable is for the very highly idealized stationary or static black holes, when the event horizon is a Killing horizon which is degenerate with the apparent and trapping horizons; and then it is the physical observability of the apparent/trapping horizons that is fundamental --- the event horizon merely comes along for the ride.

arXiv comments
V1: 4 pages; V2: added 4 references; no physics changes; now 5 pages; V3: added another 6 references; added 2 figures; reformatted; some rephrasing; no physics changes; now 6 pages
Journal reference
Phys. Rev. D 90, 127502 (2014)
DOI
doi:10.1103/PhysRevD.90.127502
Subjects
gr-qcGeneral Relativity and Quantum Cosmology hep-thHigh Energy Physics, Theory

On Hacker News

Linked by 1 identifiable commenter in 8 comments across 7 threads, from Feb 2023 to Oct 2026.

Comments linking this paper, per year.

Discussed in comments7 threads

    • > external observers would never Consider two strongly-interacting freefallers related by a boost colliding and sticking together (like a black tshirt and a floof of white pet fur) close to the apparent horizon. Consider a freefaller and an accelerated observer meeting close to…

      raattgiftView on HNParent context

    • I agree with you so much that I can't resist a nitpick. I'll also amplify your points in the last two paragraphs and justify "the popular scientists". > the event horizon moves outwards to meet it The event horizon is a global surface that might even be measurable locally in…

      raattgiftView on HNParent context

  1. Black Hole Puzzle 1 comment
    • > (classically) ... photons Uhhh... one of those words should go. Let's keep it fully classical and drop "photon": we're interested in gravitational effects rather than quantum ones (uncertainty, fluctuations, tunnelling, details about scattering and more). Really what we want…

      raattgiftView on HNParent context

    • Yay, I love Big Crunch. BC is such a tasty sugary addictive treat. It generates lots of black holes in the (re-)collapsing universe just like Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs generate lots of black holes in Calvin's tooth enamel. I think I mostly agree with you, loosely, that we…

      raattgiftView on HNParent context

    • Thanks for asking this good (and pretty difficult) question, rather than trying to make an assertion; cf. a sibling comment of mine. tl;dr: that the body is all attached for some time after crossing the horizon is [a] likely and [b] sufficent to justify the notion of stimulation…

      raattgiftView on HNParent context

    • Preamble: we are largely on the same page. I thought I'd draw your (or our mutual readers') attention to a couple details where we may differ a little. > [link to wikipedia's de Sitter-Schwarzschild page] Let's call it Schwarzschild-de Sitter (SdS, for short, and for ease of…

      raattgiftView on HNParent context

    • That's only current thinking in SYM/string/D-brane circles, surely? Strominger & Vafa (at the link) is explicitly about N=5 AdS_2 x S^3. Ok, nice that you get unitarity above all in that, but it's not at all clear that the picture corresponds with our universe. I do not see how…

      raattgiftView on HNParent context

    • > It is the observer at infinity that never sees you fall into the black hole We don't even need an observer to be at infinity, thanks to the expansion of the universe. With some future telescope our descendants may observe something on a trajectory to enter a black hole in an…

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