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arXiv:2505.11581cs.CV

Questioning Representational Optimism in Deep Learning: The Fractured Entangled Representation Hypothesis

Akarsh Kumar, Jeff Clune, Joel Lehman, Kenneth O. Stanley

Abstract

Much of the excitement in modern AI is driven by the observation that scaling up existing systems leads to better performance. But does better performance necessarily imply better internal representations? While the representational optimist assumes it must, this position paper challenges that view. We compare neural networks evolved through an open-ended search process to networks trained via conventional stochastic gradient descent (SGD) on the simple task of generating a single image. This minimal setup offers a unique advantage: each hidden neuron's full functional behavior can be easily visualized as an image, thus revealing how the network's output behavior is internally constructed neuron by neuron. The result is striking: while both networks produce the same output behavior, their internal representations differ dramatically. The SGD-trained networks exhibit a form of disorganization that we term fractured entangled representation (FER). Interestingly, the evolved networks largely lack FER, even approaching a unified factored representation (UFR). In large models, FER may be degrading core model capacities like generalization, creativity, and (continual) learning. Therefore, understanding and mitigating FER could be critical to the future of representation learning.

arXiv comments
43 pages, 25 figures
Journal reference
DOI
Subjects
cs.CVComputer Vision and Pattern Recognition cs.LGMachine Learning cs.NENeural and Evolutionary Computing

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Linked by 7 identifiable commenters in 7 comments across 7 threads, from May 2025 to Sep 2026. Found in 3 HN submissions from May 2025 to Nov 2025. Open submission discussions.

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Discussed in comments7 threads

  1. A Beginning for Mathematics 1 comment
    • One funny thing is that in order to tune the models to make what they're doing explainable to humans, you need to have humans involved in the RL pipeline to indicate which explanations are good. You can understand this as learning a mapping between the model's internal "world"…

      jsroznerView on HNParent context

  2. Small Models Have Arrived 1 comment
    • Is being wrong/ignorant about whether/how something can be automated the same as having a preference for doing it manually? Maybe so if it's your patent, your thesis I guess.. But as it relates to more/less magic, maybe the more modern lens on this is e.g.…

      ianjbutlerView on HNParent context

    • This reminds me of the latest Ken Stanley paper on representations. “Questioning Representational Optimism in Deep Learning: The Fractured Entangled Representation Hypothesis“ https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.11581

      publicdanielView on HNParent context

  3. The space of minds 1 comment
    • "Animals experience pressure for a lot more "general" intelligence because of the highly multi-task and even actively adversarial multi-agent self-play environments they are min-max optimized within, where failing at any task means death. In a deep optimization pressure sense…

      vatsachakView on HNParent context

    • If there aren't any five-legged dogs in your trainset, it's safer[0] to just remember that all dogs are four-legged than to actually recognize and count legs. After all, you might have a few images of dogs in your trainset that are misleading enough to look five-legged (e.g.…

      kmeisthaxView on HNParent context

    • The full title of the paper is “Questioning Representational Optimism in Deep Learning: The Fractured Entangled Representation Hypothesis.” https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.11581

      mattdeslView on HNParent context

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