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arXiv:2501.00073cs.CL

Position Information Emerges in Causal Transformers Without Positional Encodings via Similarity of Nearby Embeddings

Chunsheng Zuo, Pavel Guerzhoy, Michael Guerzhoy

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Abstract

Transformers with causal attention can solve tasks that require positional information without using positional encodings. In this work, we propose and investigate a new hypothesis about how positional information can be stored without using explicit positional encoding. We observe that nearby embeddings are more similar to each other than faraway embeddings, allowing the transformer to potentially reconstruct the positions of tokens. We show that this pattern can occur in both the trained and the randomly initialized Transformer models with causal attention and no positional encodings over a common range of hyperparameters.

arXiv comments
Forthcoming at the International Conference on Computational Linguistics 2025 (COLING 2025)
Journal reference
DOI
Subjects
cs.CLComputation and Language cs.LGMachine Learning

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Linked by 1 identifiable commenter in 1 comment across 1 thread, from Jul 2025 to Jul 2025. Found in 1 HN submission from Jan 2025 to Jan 2025. Open submission discussions.

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    • Ah didn't realize you were referring to NoPE explicitly. And yea, the intuitions gained from that paper are pretty much what I alluded to above, you don't get away with never modeling the positional data, the question is how you model it effectively and from where do you derive…

      spmurrayzzzView on HNParent context

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